tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15324170.post5069002584707741724..comments2023-11-05T02:43:12.011-05:00Comments on Qalandar: The Trouble With Azaadi (OUTLOOK)Qalandarhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08822440676942755461noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15324170.post-2062702637166210022010-07-16T16:59:09.620-04:002010-07-16T16:59:09.620-04:00I would say cosmopolitanism from top (New York cit...I would say cosmopolitanism from top (New York city!) is often just that--from top. More often it is status quoist than anything. It is quite an ahistoric account that you present. Also, you see Kashmir from the communal politics prism of India-Pakistan. Kashmiris are definitely tied to that, but for replication of forms to happen (Kashmir to become like Pakistan) you need much more than 'mindsets.' There are historic factors and experiences, and so many other variables, that replication seems unlikely. Not that I necessarily think India is any way a good model to follow. Modularity is as a conceptual category to think with is wrong. <br /><br />www.bluekashmir.blogspot.com<br />You say post-colonial people's have understood well the failures of nation-state. True. But would it have been a better idea for people of southsia to continue to be part of some kind of British commonwealth with equal rights to all citizens. Would the realities of power ingrained within the relations between peoples of Britain and the peoples of southasia allowed such a system to emerge? Shouldn't India, Algeria, Brazil, and why not the US, all then rework their paths back into empires from which they emerged? <br /><br />You give not one 'positive' reason why Kashmir should be part of India. India has failed itself and Kashmir for 63 years. What is the decent time period after which the decision must be taken on the Union? You only reason why Kashmir shouldn't be independent, and your reasons are speculative. Your explanation for your speculations is based on an idea of nation-state which you use selectively (even if justly) against Pakistan, but take the "idea of India"--as a nation-state-as given, for-granted. <br /><br />I agree that nation-state form has failed on so many counts, yet what other alternative exists? A hollow, formal cosmopolitanism, that is imposed from the top by already existing nation-states? If Europe is what you have in mind, can one assume that just changing our "mindsets" (and gods know what that--mindset--means) will reproduce Europe in Southasia. Could EU, not in my view such a noble concept anyway, have emerged before the horrors of the two WWs. I'm not saying one has to go through nation-state "phase" to reach the post-national phase, or that such teleologies must exist, but could such an agreement have been ethically and democratically arrived at without the self-determined will of the different nationalities of Europe?<br /><br />Your "idea of India" is an over-exalted conception of India generally popular among those ignorant of the actual crimes of that concept (think about the 430 million people still living below poverty line (not all of them are suffering only due to wrong economic policies (an extremely disproportionate number of those poor continue to be Dalits, tribals, Muslims). Think about the often silent but sometimes quite open repression of minorities, small nationalities etc, while the Indian caste-Hindu bourgeousie enjoys power over a limitless territory--a Chidambaram deciding the everyday life of the Naga people two thousand kms away. Why, who is Chidamabaram, a professed Brahmin, to rule over Nagas?<br /><br />This may or may not happen in an independent Kashmir, but many more people will be empowered than are oppressed now, that is for sure...<br /><br />Don't know if you will post this, but at least I know you would have read it.altkashmirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01279968617824250098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15324170.post-60979917822044680752009-03-17T18:06:00.000-04:002009-03-17T18:06:00.000-04:00I just read this almost by accident and I think it...I just read this almost by accident and I think its really really good. I will be a regular visitor to this site now!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15324170.post-91596102116295770302008-09-13T08:44:00.000-04:002008-09-13T08:44:00.000-04:00Excellent and to the point. As a Kashmiri, I can r...Excellent and to the point. As a Kashmiri, I can relate with your comments. The truth is that most Kashmiri know that we will be annihilated if we become Independent by global powers including China, USA and Russia. We know what our situation will be if we chose to be part of Pakistan. Most Kashmiris are smart and intelligent and know the condition of Pakistan - so they would not like to be part of a failed system. Yes some sort of autonomy may be something that would resolve the issue.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15324170.post-74040400526902362462008-09-12T21:17:00.000-04:002008-09-12T21:17:00.000-04:00I share Rajiv's thoughts on this. While nation-st...I share Rajiv's thoughts on this. While nation-state is a problematic form of community, I think it is possible to imagine it differently than it has. Certain, initially, the Indian did imagine it differently as multiple nations under one state (You can find this in Gyan Pandey's The Construction of Communalism in North India). <BR/><BR/>I would be interested to know your thoughts on the Palestinian demand for a nation-state--and whether you would still think that the same set of arguments apply.Monika Mehtahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13152839549970634489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15324170.post-61460598464430471382008-09-11T07:31:00.000-04:002008-09-11T07:31:00.000-04:00Dear Umair,The issue of Kashmir was that of nation...Dear Umair,<BR/><BR/>The issue of Kashmir was that of nationality which is now turned into that of religion.<BR/><BR/>Though I am also skeptical as to the future of a separate nation state, that is Kashmir, I dont agree with many of your assumptions that a nation-state is and cannot be an answer for any one. Of course, a nation-state is in itself a inhuman condition, where people are forced to proclaim their loyalty to a territorial landscape, where power dominates. We are now slowly being taught that it is imperative to have a nation for oneself, which I dont think is a reasonable one. Culture is being defined to defend any moral or immoral nationhood, its hypocracies and its inhumanities. It forces people to find the 'others', to spot 'enemies' in these 'others'.<BR/><BR/>Of course, as you said, these new nation states itself would turn into tyrannical states and would have their own 'bihari's and 'bengali's, but forsaking it just due to that, is not a solution. Alternatives should always be kept<BR/><BR/>RegardsRajeeve Chelanathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03546010817433761511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15324170.post-62367568415444893692008-09-10T14:25:00.000-04:002008-09-10T14:25:00.000-04:00UmairI really liked your point of view essentially...Umair<BR/>I really liked your point of view essentially because you question the redundant agenda of national movements of every hue. Arundhati, as much as I admire her activism, has taken an adventurist leap with her comment on Kashmir. But to get your point across to pepole in Kashmir and the rest of India, it'll take a lot of lateral debate. In the meanwhile the great Indian state machinery will continue trampling on those that it contends its detractors...<BR/><BR/>I'd like to cross-post your post to my blog at: http://fleuve-souterrain.blogspot.com/<BR/>thanks, Nabinafleuve-souterrainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02671460507098082150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15324170.post-74245330465892924242008-09-10T13:04:00.000-04:002008-09-10T13:04:00.000-04:00intersting article. but people at street and why a...intersting article. but people at street and why at street even in ivory towers are easy to manipulate and theories which you are propounding have just academic value. Everyone has some problem in life and it is his herdsman who decides whom to blame for individual's problem and suggest a alternative and thus herd decides to build a nation, a religion or just a civil society. though ur arguments are perfect but they are essentially arguments of a libertarian and once we accept concept of "social contract" we have to live with its imperfections.arohanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18356612496659615400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15324170.post-33247347173994351302008-09-09T18:48:00.000-04:002008-09-09T18:48:00.000-04:00Fair point Ikram (the relevant bit in the piece sh...Fair point Ikram (the relevant bit in the piece should perhaps have said "Pakistani" instead of "Bangladeshi"), but it does not undermine my point, especially when one considers that to a significant extent "1971" was a civil war within East Pakistan as well as a genocide (I am thinking here of the Jamaat-e-Islami's enthusiastic collaboration with the West Pakistani forces); not to mention that the wider point, about one NOT being able to be "wholly Bangladeshi" by being "wholly Bihari" seems to me to hold true (i.e. Bengali identity necessarily has primacy; just as Muslim identity also necessarily has primacy -- but this interplay "between" the ideas of India and of Pakistan, as it were, make consideration of Banladeshi identity especially intriguing to me).Qalandarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08822440676942755461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15324170.post-77782514394852440212008-09-09T15:17:00.000-04:002008-09-09T15:17:00.000-04:00You got the stranded Bihari story wrong. They use...You got the stranded Bihari story wrong. They used to comprise those Biharis that opted for Pakistan in 1971 (about half). (Those that opted for Bangladesh were welcomed by that country.) But Pakistan accepted only about a quarter of them.<BR/><BR/>Bangladesh, in the end, proved more generous, as a court decision last year granted the stranded Biharis Bangladeshi citizenship. <BR/><BR/>It's not a huge point, but it's never a good sign when an author gets small details wrong. (Also in this case, it undermines your main argument.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15324170.post-23272729629035655682008-09-09T14:33:00.000-04:002008-09-09T14:33:00.000-04:00Extremely thoughtful and well written piece. Congr...Extremely thoughtful and well written piece. Congratulations. I have linked it to my blogpost here:<BR/><BR/>http://chachajis-blog.blogspot.com/2008/09/no-new-nation-states-in-south-asia.htmlchachajihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02249042926024352911noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15324170.post-17320341064033464842008-09-09T12:59:00.000-04:002008-09-09T12:59:00.000-04:00Excellent piece. As much and I agree with Roy's ot...Excellent piece. As much and I agree with Roy's other work, I couldn't agree with her azaadi piece, though I agree with elements of her diagnosis. Her solution is a failure of imagination.<BR/>-vAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15324170.post-3667851417520489702008-09-09T05:31:00.000-04:002008-09-09T05:31:00.000-04:00Umair,Brilliant piece. Kudos.Umair,<BR/><BR/>Brilliant piece. Kudos.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15324170.post-26629479971703972672008-09-08T03:39:00.000-04:002008-09-08T03:39:00.000-04:00Excellent piece, you stole the worlds from my mout...Excellent piece, you stole the worlds from my mouth. I am not so articulate as you are, however I did respond in a similar manner at <BR/><BR/>http://kashmirtalk.blogspot.com/2008/09/naseer-ganai-reporter-who-refuses-to.html<BR/><BR/>AlokAlok Shuklahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09643954262410852062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15324170.post-27270710091929000462008-09-06T15:07:00.000-04:002008-09-06T15:07:00.000-04:00Excellent response to Roy. The kind of aspirations...Excellent response to Roy. The kind of aspirations you describe would be supported by the bulk of Hindus.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15324170.post-75466242538893599262008-09-06T14:36:00.000-04:002008-09-06T14:36:00.000-04:00Indeed a great article. In fact the idea of the mi...Indeed a great article. In fact the idea of the minority's right to self-determination contradicts the notion of a majoritarian democracy. It's based on the notion that a diverse state cannot properly treat its minorities.<BR/><BR/>In a sense it means that a multi-ethnic society is incapable of running a rule of majority, i.e. democracy.<BR/> <BR/>In fact, the self-serving politicians, with a secessionist agenda, have often used this idea as a tactical ploy to demand either a just and equitable society or they threaten with the idea of the right of self-determination to be reclaimed by an "oppressed" ething or religions community. <BR/><BR/>Ground reality suggests there is no such thing as a just and a fair state. It has never existed in history. Neither the state is a unified identity that has reason and wisdom to find all-satisfying solution of complex problems like poverty and corruption. A nation State will always be found wanting on many fronts giving ammunition to interest groups to indulge in political resistance, violent or otherwise.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15324170.post-24852867519873124022008-09-06T02:31:00.000-04:002008-09-06T02:31:00.000-04:00A brilliant, well articulated article that clears ...A brilliant, well articulated article that clears up many cobwebs in my head. I totally agree with you, Umair. I can appreciate Roy and I can see where she comes from and ive always supported and respected her views but i confess i had similar reservations with her passionate and compelling article on Kashmir.<BR/>In a perfect world ofcourse the Indian State's Army would butt out of Kashmir and begin the process of genuine healing. However ive lost all faith in Indian politicians and especially the communal parties that will definitely tear our country apart.mistahreddyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05938283382459178122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15324170.post-88776424522667566442008-09-05T23:43:00.000-04:002008-09-05T23:43:00.000-04:00Hi,I appreciate your views posted in the article.1...Hi,<BR/>I appreciate your views posted in the article.<BR/><BR/>1.Can you please guess What percentage of the Kashmiris agree with you, who are rallying for AZADI?<BR/><BR/>2.Do you think Pakistan will ever allow Kashmiri to leave in peace?Will not they use Kashmiri, they way Pakistan is being used by USA?<BR/><BR/>3.Regarding exploitation in India:<BR/>Who has not been exploited?<BR/><BR/>I am from Bihar, from where comes a comprehensive list of political leaders(jokers)is renowned for worst governence in India for almost 50 years.<BR/><BR/>In late 80's when unrest in Punjab was at peak, even then more people were killed in Bihar in violence than in Punjab: No one took notice.<BR/><BR/>Poverty in Bihar is worse than in Kashmir: Are you aware?<BR/><BR/>In winter, lots of poor Kashmiris come to Patna to sell their carpets.Patnaites welcome them and treat them with due respect.Do you think Kashmiri will treat with same respect if any Bihari labour goes to Srinagar for daily job?<BR/><BR/>Isn't it SC and ST are also exploited in India over a period of time?<BR/><BR/>Inspite of this there has never been a call of AZADI from Bihar: why? <BR/><BR/>When there are so many things wrong in India, that needs correction and that is happening but at slow pace.This slow pace is due to the poor qualities of our political master and opacity of the system.There are some motivating factors and actors who prefer to carry with these opacity because they suit them.Its same in the case of Kashmir.<BR/>Currently leading the pack there is Papa and Daughter Party(PDP) of Kashmir.<BR/><BR/>PS: Keep writng!!<BR/>LohianagarAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15324170.post-86390453840461859222008-09-05T15:15:00.000-04:002008-09-05T15:15:00.000-04:00Hi Sir,sorry the e mail id is singhvinod74@gmail.c...Hi Sir,<BR/><BR/>sorry the e mail id is singhvinod74@gmail.com<BR/><BR/><BR/>warm regardsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15324170.post-64809700375939383532008-09-05T15:13:00.000-04:002008-09-05T15:13:00.000-04:00Hi Sir,Iam vinod singh from bombay (singhvinod742g...Hi Sir,<BR/><BR/>Iam vinod singh from bombay (singhvinod742gmail.com)<BR/><BR/>very impresses by your article in response to arundhati roys article.<BR/><BR/>would like to share some view woth you.<BR/><BR/>and more importantly get your views on many issues.<BR/><BR/>warm regardsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15324170.post-41366522608394168092008-09-05T12:49:00.000-04:002008-09-05T12:49:00.000-04:00One of the best attacks on denominational nation b...One of the best attacks on denominational nation building...hats off.neosensehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10297233490431461932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15324170.post-4720713468312736292008-09-05T10:01:00.000-04:002008-09-05T10:01:00.000-04:00Very well written; I agree with you completely.Very well written; I agree with you completely.Mr. Bondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17215601424892180456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15324170.post-68353667102524544172008-09-05T03:00:00.000-04:002008-09-05T03:00:00.000-04:00Hats off to you. Very well written. You should con...Hats off to you. Very well written. You should consider contributing to Atimes.com in response to Spengler and his essaysAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com